BRAVO !!!

But, why is this NOT on the OS3 .pdf ???

This is HUGE news, and a great and very welcomed addition/enhancement !!!

It's weird how Ketron sometimes advertises stuff that's not yet available on AUDYA yet,
BUT then when they add some KEY features, they fail to talk or write about it.

Maybe they figure their customers enjoy these "Easter Egg" hunts.



Jerryghr

i wanna hear these new chords in action,
then i will be a believer !!!

play these chords with old OS2
then play these chords with new OS3

and then i'll be happy, and so will Diki...

Diki,

you busy practicing your "complex" chords ?? :-)

Guys, you are getting ahead of yourselves. If you noticed, on another thread, AJ reported that the new chords were a combination of SOME new audio data (but hasn't specified how much, yet), and re-worked MIDI guitar files.

He also hasn't yet explained where the new audio data goes (does it use up the sampler RAM?), how quick it loads (if you segue from one style to another), or very much of anything, yet.

Truth is, for this to be a complete addition of audio loops for these additional chords (dim, aug, sus, 11th and 9th) it ought to add over DOUBLE the ROM that is already in the Audya (because what's in there only covers three chord types - maj, min and 7th). Somehow, I just don't see it...

And, bottom line... it STILL doesn't change the 'preset' nature of all the audio loops. Drums, bass, guitars, whatever the loop does, you can't edit it, change sounds (nylon guitar instead of steel, for instance), change the kick drum pattern, use a brush kit instead of sticks, etc.. I tend to like doing all that!

If it WERE a full addition of new guitar loops to cover the holes in the current selection, yes, it WOULD be a removal of one of my primary 'musical' issues with the Audya, but even if it does (which, from what AJ said, I disbelieve), it still doesn't address my issues of firstly, being essentially a 'preset' style arranger, and secondly, the obscene cost point.

Even my neolithic G70 is STILL doing the job to mine and my audiences' satisfaction. When this technology finally matures, gets some decent competition, and the prices fall to mere mortal levels, I might by that time be ready for a move. But that day seems a long way off. Gaining another degree of realism, at the expense of a lot of editing capability still doesn't seem to be a net gain, at least for me...

Here's the reply from AJ to the question





Thread's here, if you want to read more: http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/020186.html

I just hope that the additional chords in audio that are being added were recorded at the same session as the original maj, min, 7th ones were. It would be a BEAR to match new ones with old ones, even with the same player...

... and on the status of styles. You can edit styles on the AUDYA (change the drums of a style from Techno to Brush kits, replace an Audio Standard kit with another Audio Latin kit or a Midi kit or both (Drm 1 & 2), replace the clean Audio guitar (chord 5) with a nylon audio guitar or a midi guitar all together ... etc. In this case the notes are changed as well (with audio) or maintained (with midi).

You can take a Merengue style e.g., replace the AUDIO Latin drum with an AUDIO Standard Drum loop, replace the Bass with a new bass loop, replace Chord 5 (Audio guitar) with a new Audio guitar or midi in all cases ... or replace the audio drum with a midi/groove drum.

What you cannot do with audio is e.g replace an audio loop with another that plays the same 'notes' as the previous (which you can do with Midi anyway), but it still gives you tons of choices to choose from.

Thanks,

AJ

for ME, i'd rather have the REALISM, over endless editing capabilities.
what's the use in listening to the "tin" drums as on a Tyros?
what's the use of being able to replace the midi electric guitar with a midi nylon?
or being able to add reverb to a midi snare drum?
or changing that midi kick drum to another midi kicj drum?

it will NEVER give you that LIVE sound

and this is what the AUDYA gives us...

it's all about the SOUND, this is what my audience hears,,,
i want it to sound GREAT. Period...



[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 10-07-2009).]

It might have been nice (and possibly something to think about for future styles) to have put up triggers on the acoustic set the audio drummer used, and actually HAVE a MIDI version of the same groove. Because, while I completely get your point, it is by no means the same thing as liking a groove, but wanting it played on a different sound.

ANY arranger (or at least most of them) can substitute one groove or pattern for another in the drums, guitar, bass, etc. (although they do it in MIDI), but what the Audya can't do (as you somewhat dismissively pointed out at the end) is take a groove you DO like, and play it on anything else.

This is one of the PRIMARY things that most 'tweakers' tend to do (it's certainly the easiest way to make a style fresh!).

"but what the Audya can't do (as you somewhat dismissively pointed out at the end) is take a groove you DO like, and play it on anything else."
Not completely true. The above only applies to the audio parts of a style. But with the MIDI part, you can keep the groove and change the sound.

But, to a large extent, the drum part IS the groove. It lays down the foundation, the 'pocket' of the entire style. Change that, and you have changed the entire style. Leave it alone, and you can only make superficial differences to the style (nice though they might be).

I understand (although, at this point, it is difficult to tell whether the Audya's OS is ready for this use or not) how easy it is to change the MIDI data (bet it isn't anywhere NEAR as easy as my G70 makes it, though!) in a style. But when the drums, percussion and guitar Parts (and maybe the bass part, too) are all done in audio, well, that's a pretty significant amount of the foundation of the style that you can't do a damn thing to other than change it wholesale for something else.

One of the things I like is to take a style for a song that is fairly high energy, and merely by substituting brush drums for rock, upright for electric bass, jazz or nylon for electric guitar, you can still perform the same piece with the same kind of groove, but all of a sudden, you can perform it for a cocktail audience, or early evening before the energy sets in. In fact, the Roland Cover Tools makes this an almost one button task for the entire style.

Substituting one sticks groove for another doesn't really accomplish the same thing, IMO.

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-07-2009).]

frankie what are your thoughts on os3?

... but in OS 3.0A, you do have a new drum bank (MIDI) which mirrors the AUDIO drums (however, you loose that live 'punch' and feeling only realized with audio) and here is how easy it is to do the switch/changes ...

1. Select the style (as you would with any arranger).
2. Select STYLE - VIEW (which now displays from F1-F10 the entire style parts - 2 Drums, Bass, 2 Lower/Left voices, Chords 1-5).
3. Select the part you want to change (in this case Drum1 or Drum2. It becomes highlighted waiting for your change.
4. While it is highlighted, turn the data wheel to scroll through the current bank (audio or midi - whatever it is now currently in) or press F1 to toggle to the next bank and turn wheel to scroll through Midi or press F1 again to toggle and turn wheel to scroll through USER AUDIO drums. The style can be playing when scrolling/searching through Midi drums but must be stopped to scroll through Audio.
5. If you want to change any of the chord parts, the above process is the same.
6. Like what you hear? Simply press SAVE - the style is automatically copied and saved in the HD USER STYLE folder. The ROM style remains un-altered!!

Hope this make it clearer.

Thanks,

AJ

OK, that makes it VERY much clearer. Outstanding!

Be interesting to hear comparisons between the audio version and the MIDI version, then perhaps some kit changes to show what variety you can get from this...

Things keep getting better and better with the Audya.

To be honest, though, especially with drums (although guitars are getting closer, too), I STILL don't really see the point of audio drums. If you listen to the audio demos for things like EZ Drummer and BFD, etc., it can be almost impossible to tell that it isn't a REAL drummer in audio. It sounds live, it sounds ambient, it sounds real. BUT.... you still can do all the standard MIDI stuff to it. All we need are ROM kits in the sizes that EZ Drummer uses (in fact, they could be MUCH smaller, because you don't need the independent 'overhead' and 'room' mike layers that these give you) and audio loops could be unnecessary.

In fact, do this, and you open up much more data streaming capabilities to the audio guitars (don't need it for the drums any more), and you might finally have the throughput to REALLY get all the guitar chords in realtime...

Once keyboards have the processing power to do what melodyne direct note access does, just think how few audio loops it would actually take to get other chords. You could record maj, and get min, sus easily, and probably aug too. Then you could have more than enough room to make all the extended chords, or just a few of them. like if you make maj 9, min 9 could easily be achieved in the software. And that's the day I'll buy an arranger with audio loops.

Melodyne isn't even a realtime process on the fastest computers you can buy nowadays... Plus, I'm sorry, but despite the impressive demos, it is still no magic bullet to change anything into anything else. You'll notice the demos use VERY clean, very simple sounds as sources. Feed it something more complex, and it has a hard time.

We've got several generations of computers and audio hardware to go through before this is even possible on a TOTL mutiprocessor computer. So that would mean another five or ten years before an arranger gets anywhere NEAR that power on board!

Dream on...

More complex than what? An audio guitar loop isn't so complex that it can't be done. It is being done. It's just as likely that this technology will be available as soon as or sooner than the gigs upon gigs of streaming memory that it would take to do all the chords for all the styles as actual audio.
BTW, have you worked with the new DNA to see how limited it actually is? Have you seen or heard any user demonstrations of it not working very well?
Melodyne can pretty much do it in realtime. You can play a polyphonic piece of audio and change the notes of it via midi keyboard in realtime. Yeah, Melodyne has to take an initial look at the audio first, but that could be done in the arranger too, so it already has looked at all of the audio loops and knows what's in them when the unit ships, so then it can just start doing its thing as you play.

Sure, it won't be in the next generation arranger, but I'd rather see things go that direction than try to get players to record actual audio of every chord type imaginable for every style, and still try to make it musical.

How long ago was it that we were impressed with Vienna orchestral having the ability to do realistic glisses, slides, even note to note transitions? And now we have super articulation 3 built into a keyboard that is doing just that. 5 or 10 years sounds about right.

The guitar and Rhodes demos for Melodyne are extremely clean. Little in the way of distortion, pick noises, scrapes, thumps, all those things that can confuse pitch analyzers...

And yes, we use it at the studio, and it's MUCH less easy than the demos make it out.

Do YOU have it yet? How well does it work for you?

But you are right. I hadn't considered that the analyzing could be done in advance with an arranger. Bet you it's at least fifteen years or more before it becomes a reality for arrangers (if ever), though.

I'm on a 3 week gig, so I haven't tried it yet. Then, in my case, there is always the problem of is it accessible. I've been able to use Melodyne with some degree of success, but this new editor with the polyphonic capabilities might turn out to be very blind unfriendly. We shall see.